SEO, Paid & the Generalist Advantage
The one with Russ Macumber
What we talked about
- Being a marketing/SEO generalist
- Generalists vs specialists in agencies
- SEO becoming multi-platform (TikTok, Amazon, LLMs, YouTube)
- LLM traffic conversion rates
- Agencies and tools overselling LLM visibility
- Future of paid ads inside LLMs and AI Mode
- Google removing num=100 results parameter
- Listicles for LLM visibility
- Black-hat vs white-hat tactics
- SEO sprints and client budgeting
The questions we dug into
Q1How do you maintain being a generalist when it's so much work?
Curiosity makes it natural (he recommends the book 'Range' by David Epstein), but avoid becoming a master of none: go deep in two or three lanes. His sales, copywriting and small-business background gives him a revenue focus and an interest in how channels connect across the buyer journey.
Asked by Sara · answered by Russ Macumber
Q2Is being a generalist the way of the future for agencies, especially with AI agents?
Specialists will always be needed, but generalists will be the directional leaders. SEO itself is generalizing: it's no longer just Google — anywhere there's a search bar (LLMs, TikTok, Amazon) there's demand to optimize for, paid or organic.
Asked by Nik · answered by Russ Macumber
Q3Does traffic from LLMs convert better than other channels?
Russ: it's too early for big calls; claims come from narrow audiences and products where text recommendations make sense — it depends on industry and product. Nik: test your own hypotheses; LLMs are still only ~1.8% of traffic, so bold research claims don't hold.
Asked by Sara · answered by Russ Macumber & Nik
Q4Is there false advertising in the industry around LLM visibility audits and tools?
Yes. Content about GEO/AEO is mostly regurgitated ChatGPT output. Russ estimates only ~1% of agencies run real experiments; most are protecting retainers and reassuring clients without doing R&D.
Asked by Nik · answered by Russ Macumber
Q5How will paid ads work inside LLMs and AI Mode?
Russ: it will be figured out through experimentation; ads will likely start on very bottom-of-funnel queries using NLP intent. Sara: LLMs copy Google a lot, so expect Google-like ad formats, and possibly marketplace/affiliate commission models.
Asked by Nik · answered by Russ Macumber & Sara
Q6Was Google removing the 100-results (num=100) parameter a defensive move?
Russ read it as freeing compute resources for AI Mode. Sara thinks it's defensive against scraping/LLMs. Nik noted Reddit citations in LLMs dropped sharply after the change and impression drops were hard to explain to clients.
Asked by Nik · answered by Russ Macumber & Sara
Q7Should you use self-promotional 'top 10' listicles to get cited by LLMs?
Yes, if it fits the client, because it works right now — but not in a spammy way. LLMs look across many listicles, so you need to be on many, or target very narrow niches. It's not a sustainable long-term strategy; Google could pull the rug anytime.
Asked by Russ Macumber · answered by Sara
Q8What do you think of black-hat LLM tactics and do you use them?
'Black hat' is a label applied after the fact to what used to work. Use tactics if they help now and are good for users, but only as part of a broader user-focused strategy — play both the short and long game.
Asked by Nik · answered by Russ Macumber
Lines that stuck with us
- Russ: 'Specialists are crucial... but the generalists will be the leaders.'
- Russ: 'Anywhere there's a search bar, there's demand.'
- Russ: 'Black hat is only something we coin after the fact.'
- Russ estimates only ~1% of agencies run real experiments on LLM visibility.
- Nik: LLMs account for ~1.8% of traffic.
- Sara: YouTube is the second-largest search engine (excluding image search).
- Russ: one bad SEO quarter shouldn't outweigh hitting the KPI 12 of the last 15 quarters — 'this is a long game.'
Note: This page was AI-generated from the podcast transcript and manually reviewed for accuracy and context. While we’ve made every effort to ensure it reflects the original conversation, mistakes or omissions are still possible. If you spot something that doesn’t look right, please reach out and let us know.